Avengers: Endgame [HUGE SPOILERS]

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

This is out tonight and I knew a few of you guys will be seeing it straight away, so I thought I'd open a full, no holds barred, spoiler filled thread.

I'm not seeing it until tomorrow morning, after a 12 hour shift, so I won't be back until after that.

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

Seeing it tonight, in about 4 hours   

Just watched Infinity War now, my body is ready !

Edited April 24, 2019 by Fido_le_muet

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

I'm re-watching IW tonight at work.  About 18 hours to go for me  

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

I'm in the theater. Movie starting in 5' !!!!

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

1 minute ago, Fido_le_muet said:

I'm in the theater. Movie starting in 5' !!!!

Nice! 

I'll be back here tomorrow afternoon to dump out all my emotions!

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

7 minutes ago, LimeGreenLegend said:

Nice! 

I'll be back here tomorrow afternoon to dump out all my emotions!

I'll be there ?

(Fucking commercials taking forever!)

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

In case you didn't read the title of the thread, this is a spoiler zone, so if you haven't seen it yet stop reading at the gif of Tony Stark because I'm about to say some very spoilery things.

Well fuck, I don't know where to start.  I guess I should pay my respects and say R.I.P Tony Stark.  You were Iron Man.  His ending, using the iron gauntlet to end Thanos and giving his life in the process, then having Pepper and Peter at the end there for him really got me man, real floodgate of tears.  The way he said "I am Iron Man" after Thanos asked him who he thought he was, that got me crying too.  The fact he did it knowing he wouldn't see his daughter again as well, I'm crying now thinking about it.  

Old Cap got me too, but those were tears of happiness.  He got to have his dance with Peggy.  The last shot of the film, of them just dancing in their house, having a life together.  Fuck man.  

Hope we get more Thor, now he's a member of "The Asgardians of the Galaxy.  Thor was great in this, fat Thor, Big Lebowski Thor.  Brilliant.  

I'm glad that the film was funnier than the trailer made it seem, especially Scott, and the first attempt at time travel, hilarious.  

That last battle scene, fuck my ass it was epic.  When Thanos beats down Tony, Thor and Steve, then Steve gets back up and you think he's gonna go one on one with Thanos, I thought he was going to die there going toe to toe, then Sam comes over the radio, "on your left" and a million fucking wizard portals appear and FUCKING EVERYONE EVER comes through to fight with him.  That is going to be hard to top.

I'm glossing over a million things, Bruce-Hulk is amazing, Cap v Cap!  Cap with Thor's hammer! I loved seeing the Ancient One again, the very first scene of the film! On Hawkeye's ranch and you see his family turn to dust, had me crying from the start.  Stan's cameo! Make love, not war!

@Fido_le_muetwill remind me of all of the other things I've forgotten, but sweet Jesus this is one of the most satisfying films I've ever seen.  I could've watched another three hours, and every second would be deserved, because this truly is a season finale for the last 11 years worth of films.

I was going to go to sleep because I've been up for 24 hours at this point, but I am too pumped.  I'm just excited now for the future of these films, and now Disney owns Fox, lets get the Fantastic Four and the X Men in this bitch!

[Con 5,719]

Cool. Thanks for the write up. I have no plans on watching it anytime soon so I appreciate the spoilers. 

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

SPOILERS !!! SPOILERS !!! SPOILERS !!! SPOILERS !!! SPOILERS !!!

@LimeGreenLegend

Satisfying. That is the word that suits this movie best. 

It was epic ! I agree that it is the best superhero movie ever. So much to say about it. I don't know where to start either ! I'll try chronologically.

The trailers (I watched the first two then entered media blackout mode) painted a very grim movie and the film starts exactly like that when what we all expected and feared happens, Hawkeye's family vanishes right in front of him. Very sad but by now we're used to it so it takes away a bit of the sadness. And if you've watched at least one trailer, you kinda knew Hawkeye would go on a dark path and take the Ronin persona. 

Then, also in the trailers, we have Tony and Nebula stranded in space in the Guardians ship. Tony is dying by lack of O2 but suddenly BOOM ! Captain Marvel shows up and brings the ship directly back to the Avengers compound. She's already with the Avengers after only 10 minutes ! One thing I disliked, nobody seemed to care about her arrival, it's just business as usual with Carol in the room. No one acknowledges her, despite her immensely powerful powers.

Nebula knows where Thanos is hiding so there they go, everybody suits up, they travel to Thanos planet and after a brief fight and discussion, Thor decapitates him ! Thanos dies 15 minutes in !!! How unexpected was that ???!!!! It blew my mind ! Still 2h45 to go :drool:

And then BAM ! TIME JUMP 5 years later !!! 

Captain America and Black Widow are so depressed to live in a world/universe without half of its population ! Natasha leads the Avengers on various small scale missions, to keep some kind of purpose to her life. They're still pissed to have lost. Then Scott Lang miraculously comes back from the Quantum Realm and he has an idea : TIME TRAVEL !!! Undo what Thanos did by finding the stones before him. Great plan Scott ! Also, Tony Stark has a daughter now and she's so cute ! Of course he figures out how to properly time travel, they find Bruce Banner who is now full time Hulk but with the full intelligence of Bruce. So awesome ! 

First and second acts are basically time travel stuff. They go back in time during various moments seen in previous movies (Avengers, Thor: Dark World, Guardians 1) to retrieve the stones. I had a blast going back to these movies with a different perspective. That was pure fan service but also moved the plot forward. Many cameos from past secondary characters. So cool to see the Ancient One, Frigga, Loki, Rumlow, Howard Stark, Jane Foster! The Tony/Howard scene was very moving and foreshadowing the events to come. I liked how Loki manages to give everybody the slip with the Tesseract ! The gate is now open for him to return somewhere down the line. Marvel couldn't bench him, he's just the best. Hiddleston is too good an actor. Good call ! Also, Thor gets Mjolnir back ! I haven't mentionned Thor yet ! He's the best ! He's fat now, drinking beer, eating snacks and playing Fortnite all day in his man cave with Korg and Miek ! That was one of the most funny moments of the movie. By the way, up to this point, the movie was almost comedy like with a lot of gags and funny situations and dialogue. Definitely not what I was expecting. Thought it would be much darker with everybody dead. But again, that was the right move Russos. Well played.

When our heroes decided that Black Widow and Hawkeye were going for the Soul Stone, we knew one of them was a goner. BW bites the dust (literally). It couldn't go the other way, Hawkeye was already a wreck. He's lost everything, what's the point for him to restore everything if he's dead ? He's miserable, that would have been kinda sadist to have him sacrifice himself on top of that. Again, right decision to kill her off, even if it was very sad but it was obvious not all of them were gonna survive. There had to be a feeling of danger for them, that any one of them could die. 

Eventually they retrieve the stones and Banner undo all the deaths from Infinity War. But Thanos got wind of what was happening behind his back because Nebula 2019 and Nebula 2014 somehow synchronize their implants, allowing the Mad Titan to see all of Nebula19's memories. Soon, Thanos travels to the future to fight the Avengers. Big fight with Thor, Iron Man and Cap and they kinda reach a draw. But what a pleasure and a huge satisfaction to see Captain America hold Mjolnir because OF COURSE HE IS WORTHY ! Huge applause in my theater when that happened ! People cheering ! That was very cool. That rarely happens when I go to the cinema. I think the only other time was for The Force Awakens. 

Then Thanos calls in his army and our heroes are almost beaten but then, what we were all waiting for happens. All our dead heroes show up with armies from Asgard, Wakanda and a ton of wizards ! That scene is epic, it is glorious, it's the culmination of 11 years of Marvel movies. So satisfying to see litteraly EVERYONE battle Thanos army. Everyone has its moment to shine. We even have at one point a full women action scene ! That was badass. Not as badass as Carol Danvers arrival. She quickly destroys the entire spaceship of Thanos by simply flying through it ! The purple guy is so pissed ! 

Finally, at the end, everyone fights to retrieve the gauntlet and the stones and finally, Tony Stark gets it and snaps his fingers to erase Thanos and co in a glorious 'I am Iron Man'. Unfortunately, he dies because of the extreme toll he takes from the stones. That was such an emotionnal scene with Spider-Man and Pepper saying their goodbyes. I'm sure many people were crying by now. Huge emotions, goosebumps. I was certain he or Cap was gonna die at the end. They're both the pillars of the Avengers and one of them had to go, to really cement how Endgame is the end of something. Couldn't end any other way. The funeral scene was also the saddest ! Seeing that little girl burying her daddy. As a new dad myself, that was too much and I couldn't hold my tears. We really love these characters by now. We've been following them for 11 years. Personnaly, I am deep in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, very invested in all the stories so it was heavy on emotions for me. So satisgying. 

At the very end, Steve rogers goes back in time again to put back all the stones, except he doesn't come back. Hulk, Bucky and Sam are waiting for his return which should have taken 5 seconds. Instead, they see a figure seated on a bench nearby. Sam goes to him and it's Captain America, in his 80s ! He's old. He gives his shield to Sam, making him the new Captain America. This happens in the comics so it was cool to see on screen. Another scene of pure fan service. Love it! When I saw the man sitting, I thought at first that it was pre-super soldier serum Steve, all skinny. Old Steve is actually much better. He decided to stay in the past to live the life he never had with Peggy Carter. The movie ending with Steve finally having his dance with Peggy shows how Cap, along with Iron Man is the core of the Avengers. They're the most important characters of the past 11 years. 

OK this is getting too long now so I'll end this quickly. Not many hints about the future of the MCU after that. Just that Thor is now an AsGuardian of the Galaxy. Big laughs in the cinema  Wonderful ending for him as well. can't wait to see him and the team in GotG 3 now ! Should be a lot of fun. Also, as a fan of the MCU side shows on TV, I was super happy to see Jarvis in Endgame. the same Jarvis from the Agent Carter TV show. That was the first (and only) acknowledgement of the TV side of the MCU in the movies. Again, satisfying ! 

I don't see what can top that now but I have 100% confidence in Marvel and I know it's gonna be a great new ride. And with the Fantastic Four and X-Men on the horizon, many new storylines are possible now. Lots of stuff to explore. Can't wait. 

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

I almost forgot : 

'Avengers ! Assemble ! ' Greatest moment in the entire MCU !!!

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

Cap saying "Avengers...assemble" is the most badass awesome thing in the whole MCU.

Something else I just had to research was the end credits.  There's no scene after them, but when they show the Marvel logo there's a sound of metal being hit, and it turns out it's the sound of Tony Stark making the Mk.1 Iron Man suit in the cave from Iron Man 1.  Beautiful nod to the character and how far these movies have come.

Also shows how far Tony Stark came as a character.  He built that first suit just to save himself, at the end of Endgame he gives his life to save everybody else.  Beautiful character development over 11 years.

Edited April 26, 2019 by LimeGreenLegend

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

Exactly. Under the big spectacle of CGI and green screens, there are incredible characters arcs developped over 22 movies. 

Hadn't heard the metal bang at the end, only read about it yesterday but no one knew what it was. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also nice touch to have the kid from Iron Man 3 showing up at Tony's funeral. 

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

Just now, Fido_le_muet said:

Exactly. Under the big spectacle of CGI and green screens, there are incredible characters arcs developped over 22 movies. 

Hadn't heard the metal bang at the end, only read about it yesterday but no one knew what it was. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also nice touch to have the kid from Iron Man 3 showing up at Tony's funeral. 

That's who that kid was!  So many layers in this film.

And if these films were all CGI and no character, like the Transformers films, I wouldn't give a shit, but when you talk about the Marvel movies you talk about the characters first and the action second.  Despite all of the amazing action in Endgame, my favourite scene is the very last shot of the film, Steve and Peggy just living their life, because I've been on this journey with him and know how much he deserves that.

[Fido_le_muet 5,198]

3 days later, I still can't believe how awesome that movie was and the impact it had on me. 

Really hurts to say goodbye to Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. Awesome characters. 

[Sinister 2,583]

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it. I have not seen every movie in the series but have enjoyed the ones that I have. Nice way to tie it all up, my hats off to everyone involved because it was quite a feat to pull off as well as they did.

 

Seeing the last Stan Lee Cameo was very bittersweet. He brought joy to tens of millions of people with his work.

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

Sat in the cinema as the end credits roll by. It's quite difficult to summarise because of it's length and the way the mood and pace changed across the arc of the story.

I will go into more later. I would call it a good 8/10 film though.

[Squirrel 5,180]

Mr Thanos I don’t feel so good. 

[Squirrel 5,180]

I’m going to make a couple of review posts. First up what I didn’t like, will follow up later with a post saying what I liked. 

The first part of the series continuity that seems to have been forgotten about is when Hawkeye picked up the loose infinity stone. It’s been established in both Guardians films that mere mortals can’t hold a stone without it killing them. Starlord who is half celestial could barely contain the power of a stone without help from others. Hawkeye picked it up like it was a marble. Why make a lot of effort to establish set rules just to forget about them.  

The next similar point is when Ironman was able to make a glove to hold the stones just using earth based technology. Thanos originally needed the power of a star to make a glove capable of containing the power of the infinity stones. Stark may be an epic engineer but he’s still using basic technology when compared to the power of a star. There are plenty of races with superior technology compared to earth, so why did Thanos have to create the gauntlet the way he did if he could have just used some nano tech instead.

Related to the glove, the infinity gauntlet was made to fit someone’s left hand, Ironmans gauntlet was made to fit someones right hand. I was kind of hoping there would be some form of reality where two sets of stones exist in order to have someone duel wielding two gauntlets.

This ones going to be a controversial point but that girl power scene was clearly all about making an effort to right the wrongs Hollywood has made in regards to gender equality. Equality isn’t about giving preferential treatment to make up for a history of inequality. True equality occurs when you don’t notice an effort being made. For me that scene wasn’t fixing the gender issue, it just highlighted that there has been a problem in Hollywood and the producers were falling over themselves to rectify it. Marvel have been very successful in establishing a series of strong characters who just happened to be female not strong because they are female. They might as well have played Spice Girls over the top of that scene. Hopefully my point makes sense. It’s a tricky one to put into words. 

Now for a few minor points which I didn’t like

The Hulk is no longer the hulk. I’ve not liked the change in him since Ragnorok. Hulk being able to speak didn’t seem right but now it’s gone to the next level. I liked the animal nature of the Hulk, having the blend of him and Banner just doesn’t work for me.

Antmans daughter grew at least 10 years. Think an adult actress was the wrong choice there.   

No focus on the rest of animal or human life after the reverse snap. Thanos snapped for a reason, they showed that animal life was flourishing once again post snap where the human influence has been diminished. and this reverse snap has now undone all that good work. Overpopulation was the whole reason why Thanos wanted to restore balance. They really need to address this going forward. 

Squirrel Girl never made an appearance. ?

I’ll make a more positive post later with less doom and gloom. I did enjoy the film a lot though! 

 

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

51 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

This ones going to be a controversial point but that girl power scene was clearly all about making an effort to right the wrongs Hollywood has made in regards to gender equality. Equality isn’t about giving preferential treatment to make up for a history of inequality. True equality occurs when you don’t notice an effort being made. For me that scene wasn’t fixing the gender issue, it just highlighted that there has been a problem in Hollywood and the producers were falling over themselves to rectify it. Marvel have been very successful in establishing a series of strong characters who just happened to be female not strong because they are female. They might as well have played Spice Girls over the top of that scene. Hopefully my point makes sense. It’s a tricky one to put into words.  

I was going to raise a similar point, although I feel the more interesting aspect of it is why that poster shot of all the ladies was so jarring. Because that's what it was, a poster shot. I would love an actual poster of that on my wall. And poster shots are a staple of superhero movies. It occurred in a fight scene that was almost entirely comprised of such shots. Yet that one stood out as jarring.

Various faults with the execution of that scene could play a part: the characters largely having no real affiliation with each other beyond all being on the blue team; Danvers being the one single character who doesn't need help as she buggers off at the speed of sound as soon as she's said the line anyway; the length of time the camera holds on the assembled characters.

But the fact it's all of the ladies is what stands out. And the one, ONE smurfette who has been there since the start doesn't feature, since she's smeared across the bottom of a cliff. 

I think they did screw up that shot somewhat, but it definitely stands out because for basically the first time in eleven years there isn't a dude in it.

...

Speaking more broadly now I surprised myself by not being all that blown away by the final assembled battle sequence. After two hours of very compelling drama, comedy and storytelling, then a very intense three on one fight with Stark, Thor and Cap, the big splash battle was just meh. It felt incredibly forced, with this wholey too vast number of guest appearances playing pass the parcel. Honestly I would not have minded that whole splash panel brought to life having been cut right down.

Really this is a consequence of the rest of the film being so well put together. Everyone did a great job and the surprises and twists were great. The revisits to previous films, while obvious fan service, advanced the plot and the characters really well. I could very happily have had the film end with the three on one while the big battle happened in the background. That way it wouldn't have felt like the climax was paused for ten minutes while everyone did the CGI conga.

[LimeGreenLegend 4,295]

Hawkeye had the soul stone, you need to make a sacrifice to get that, conditions were met, so he was able to handle it.  As for the female Avengers scene, I loved it.  It wasn't giving any preferential treatment to those characters, and highlighting that something in the past was a problem is a good thing.  Imagine being a ten year old girl seeing that!  When we were young we had thousands of role models on the big screen, because we were boys, and all of the heroes were men.  If you were a girl you had like a choice of three.  Highlighting that is a celebration.  Nothing about that scene says that they are strong because they are women, they are just showing us strong women, all in one shot (and Peter Parker in the background)

I do agree that Captain Marvel really didn't need the help though, but she was probably being nice, "thanks for the help guys, couldn't have done it without you"  

[Sinister 2,583]

Yeah, that entire girl power thing was awkward and too forced. I sighed loudly and received "the look" from my wife.

Thanos had a great idea, just poor execution. He needed to descriminate. No sense leaving murderers, thieves, rapists, etc alive. He also didn't take all the incidental deaths into account. Airline pilots disappear, those in control of a nuclear reactor, etc. The loss of life would have been well over 50%

That said, it's just a movie. I don't go too deep in them. I just want to be entertained and I was, so it's a good movie.

Edited May 1, 2019 by SINISTER120

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

Heheh last time I checked on TV Tropes that girl power poster shot was in the Narm catagory... immediately followed by an entry in Narm Charm. Really that whole splash panel finale was contrived from start to finish solely to guest feature everyone. The only question is whether you care or not.

Edited May 1, 2019 by The_Lady_A

[Squirrel 5,180]

15 minutes ago, Sinister said:

Yeah, that entire girl power thing was awkward and too forced. I sighed loudly and received "the look" from my wife.

Thanos had a great idea, just poor execution. He needed to descriminate. No sense leaving murderers, thieves, rapists, etc alive. He also didn't take all the incidental deaths into account. Airline pilots disappear, those in control of a nuclear reactor, etc. The loss of life would have been well over 50%

That said, it's just a movie. I don't go too deep in them. I just want to be entertained and I was, so it's a good movie.

On the second point it seems that Thanos did allow planes being piloted as according to the census mentioned in the film it was exactly 50%

Plus Thanos is all about balance. You can’t just take all the evil in the world away and leave the good.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Squirrel

[Squirrel 5,180]

Watched it again and got more unanswered questions. 

Why is Thanos still wearing the infinity gauntlet after the stones have been destroyed when the Avengers arrive to kill him?

He’s all about the simple farming life so surely it’s easier to pick fruit without a heavy glove. 

 

The unsnappening is going to cause chaos. 5 years in a long time, if someone remarried and had more kids after their original partners were snapped that’s going to make for some awkward conversations. 

 

It was good to see that Captain A took Thors hammer back to the right timeline as well in order to stop causing issues there.

 

Talking of returning the stones to their original points in time, how does Captain A return the Soul Stone? Does he then get Black Widow back at the same time?

I can’t imagine Captain A and the Red Skull having a nice civilised conversation either. 

 

They needed Pym particles to power the suits/bracelets in order to time travel successfully. How did Bad Nebula manage to power the machine and get Thanos to the right point in time without turning him into baby Thanos?

 

I’m also really confused about the timeline now and who exists and who doesn’t. The stones going back as they were before to keep the timeline intact also means that Thanos etc will also still exist in that reality. My brain is hurting now. Damn time travel. 

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

I can't answer any time travel shit, because time travel.

But the infinity gauntlet was twisted and deformed on Farmer Thanos's arm, so I took that to mean it melted and fused to the limb when he destroyed it. Because he had to wear it to destroy it. The only way that's coming off is with what's left of the arm. Thor would have done him a favour amputating it, if Thor hadn't made it a moot point by decapitating him right afterwards.

Edited May 6, 2019 by The_Lady_A