Ethics of Lester

[shadowvan 33]

I'm a tad confused with Lester's option. If its frowned on and will cause disqualification then it shouldn't be used as a death perk eithe?

I dunno, I don't like wasted perks. I believe mercs are OK, and lester is an option. If someone reveals, you can call lester and reveal yourself or go off radar. And everyone knows.

It is GTA though, use advantages if you need them

[DavidCore89 7,404]

I'm a tad confused with Lester's option. If its frowned on and will cause disqualification then it shouldn't be used as a death perk eithe?

I dunno, I don't like wasted perks. I believe mercs are OK, and lester is an option. If someone reveals, you can call lester and reveal yourself or go off radar. And everyone knows.

It is GTA though, use advantages if you need them

Well when you call Lester, it will charge you cash and every player will be informed that you've done so.

 

Losing perks offer the same benefits, but they're free, they do not inform anyone and they're only offered on the 'wasted' screen when you're getting owned in the DM. 

 

So it's not frowned upon because you've been offered losing perks for getting killed a lot... Calling Lester is done by players who don't need to be gaining any kind of advantage, if you were in need of those benefits then the game would offer them to you for free.

 

Another thing, pick up the bullshark testosterone when you see it on the map! 

Edited April 22, 2015 by DavidCore89

[DavidCore89 7,404]

Players who call Lester will generally do it every minute and that's likely because they're not capable of locating their opponents.

 

So it's like CoD for them, they can't play a DM without constantly being able to see their locations.

 

Not being able to see players on the map makes sense... It's because you can't see or hear them.

Edited April 22, 2015 by DavidCore89

[shadowvan 33]

I know about lester. My opinion is just to use it or not. If you're gonna use it, then everyone should be made aware. The losing perk is just to help someone gain an advantage. Issue being others are not known of that advantage.

If calling lester is frowned upon, then using a losing perk should also be frowned upon. Losing perks shouldn't be used in a crew h2h if the use of lester/mercs/mugger isn't allowed. That's what I ment by the post

[xXEternalDarkXx 100]

I know about lester. My opinion is just to use it or not. If you're gonna use it, then everyone should be made aware. The losing perk is just to help someone gain an advantage. Issue being others are not known of that advantage.

If calling lester is frowned upon, then using a losing perk should also be frowned upon. Losing perks shouldn't be used in a crew h2h if the use of lester/mercs/mugger isn't allowed. That's what I ment by the post

Shadow, I think what he meant about lester being frowned apon is just a collective stance by our crew. 

 

WHen I've run PL's with the crew & they say no explosives, no lester etc - whatever the rules be, thems the rules. 

 

I'll admit, I don't understand the reasoning behind lester being "banned" in crew pl's, but to me I don't need that understanding, at least not to abide by the rules & have fun with my friends.

 

I will use lester in random DM's depending on the map, situation & if the other player/team has used lester or not. Though it does cost $500 per use of lester, it can add up quick.

 

<3 snacks & body armor. 

[ScottyB 2,086]

Shadow, I think what he meant about lester being frowned apon is just a collective stance by our crew. 

 

WHen I've run PL's with the crew & they say no explosives, no lester etc - whatever the rules be, thems the rules. 

 

I'll admit, I don't understand the reasoning behind lester being "banned" in crew pl's, but to me I don't need that understanding, at least not to abide by the rules & have fun with my friends.

 

I will use lester in random DM's depending on the map, situation & if the other player/team has used lester or not. Though it does cost $500 per use of lester, it can add up quick.

 

<3 snacks & body armor.

The losing streak perk is a bit annoying too and there is no way to regulate it or prove if someone has used it or not. I've had matches where my team is on double the other teams score, and cause I died 3 times in a row I get a losing streak perk which is completely unfair and it has also happened against me.

The people who constantly use Lester and owned weapons would probably lose money for playing a deathmatch.. Doesn't make sense!

You shouldn't need to call Lester to get an advantage over everyone else. It's the same as a bullet proof helmet. The game offers them but any half decent player shouldn't need to use them.

I can't understand why these people who spam Lester and wear bullet proof helmets continue to do it even though most there don't. Does it make them feel good to be able to beat people when they have an unfair advantage?

Our crew likes to use these rules as those perks change the dynamic of the game and give an advantage to people who use them. I actually prefer to not know where people are most of the time, it makes you think more about your movements and takes more skill to hunt people down.

[JustHatched 12,123]

I'm a tad confused with Lester's option. If its frowned on and will cause disqualification then it shouldn't be used as a death perk eithe?

I dunno, I don't like wasted perks. I believe mercs are OK, and lester is an option. If someone reveals, you can call lester and reveal yourself or go off radar. And everyone knows.

It is GTA though, use advantages if you need them

I think there is a bit of confusion, in an H2H the rules can vary depending on what each crews organizer want to do, we have done H2H's with yes to Lester and no to Lester, more often to no though.

In a XDBX playlist I personally don't care either way, I would prefer that Lester isn't spammed to death. I myself have a tendency to call Merryweather on certain members **cough** G37 ** but I really don't get an advantage from it.

I think calling it frowned on is the wrong terminology, just not a favored tactic.

Having a rule against losing perks would be impossible to regulate in any match since there is no way of knowing who uses it and when.

[Beez 5,091]

I really don't care, if you want to waste your money calling Lester or whoever, go for it.

[JustHatched 12,123]

Split from the DM tips thread

[Pb76 3,952]

Even with loser perks I'm hopeless. I could have a bulletproof suit, Lester on speed dial and a beer hat full of bull shark testosterone and you'd still wish I wasn't on your team.

[SeymorScagneti 1,274]

Calling Lester is weak IMO. Try playing a TDM without your HUD for a better challenge.

As for owned weapons, I don't get the hate they get from some in this crew.

How fun/funny would it be to play Banketellis Wreckonize with a flare gun only? Hatch's Springer with muskets? Lizzie Borden themed DM with hatchets only...can't do any of that with forced and pickups.

[Pb76 3,952]

Calling Lester is weak IMO. Try playing a TDM without your HUD for a better challenge.

As for owned weapons, I don't get the hate they get from some in this crew.

How fun/funny would it be to play Banketellis Wreckonize with a flare gun only? Hatch's Springer with muskets? Lizzie Borden themed DM with hatchets only...can't do any of that with forced and pickups.

fun, yes.....but you can't guarantee people would only use the weapons they were asked to use Edited April 24, 2015 by Pb76

[SeymorScagneti 1,274]

fun, yes.....but you can't guarantee people would only use the weapons they were asked to use

This is supposed to be a mature crew, correct?

Then those mature crew members that can't listen to or read simple instructions can leave that job.

[G37 3,445]

At the same time though, some of those weapons have limited ammo.

 

Bank's Better Wreckonize with Flare Guns only? Fun, sure .. for as long as you can make those 20 rounds last. No pick ups. Same with a Musket even though it shares rounds with another class.

 

Owned Weapons in general get the stigma Lester/BPH does in certain regards because it takes out any tactics on the battlefield. Someone's on higher ground? Okay, mini gun and RPG .. no problem. Someone's hiding behind a crate? Same deal. IMO there's little fun to be had when you have your entire arsenal at your disposal and are ready for really any situation. The terrain means almost nothing. Your position means almost nothing. The mini-map means almost nothing. Teamwork means almost nothing. It's boring and quite honestly, deserves to stay strictly to free roam. It's exactly like racing with only Super cars. 

 

If I think about Lester AND Owned weapons together, I think exactly that .. free roam. I can't deal with "competitive" play when it's a rehash of free roam .. without a wanted level. Not only do you have the right weapon for any situation, but you can see your opponents at all times! Besides, $500 every minute for 10 .. do the math and calculate what it'd cost to use your own bullets and explosives. You're hard pressed to walk away with anything, even if you win. It belongs in free roam, not in a match that is remotely competitive.

 

Now don't get me wrong, some things are intended for and can be quite fun with Owned Weapons. It's probably not so much as "owned weapons" being the problem as it is the general trend of what people do with them:

- Spam RPGs

- Spam Miniguns

- Crawl far outside the map and snipe

- Autoshotgun-you-to-death

 

Every single map set to owned weapons has come to that. Considering we can't change an entire population's mindset and behavior with them, my thoughts on them won't change. The only way in my honest opinion to get an as fair and even as possible playing field is to go about Forced + Pick-Ups .. because this IS GTA and if you don't have a legitimate setting, people will do all sorts of shady tactics to win (like curb boosting in racing).

 

Personally will I avoid an owned weapons map? No. I just don't prefer them by any stretch but above all else, BPHs irk me like no other.

 

My own stance is this: I will never call Lester, it's a waste of money and I like a challenge. I like holding myself to a higher standard of playing. Sure, it's there for everyone and that's fine, but it's not for me. On the topic of a BPH - also there for everyone, same deal - I won't use it (never with or against the crew). At times I'll be forced to wear one against randoms because you legitimately are at a severe disadvantage no matter how good you are against someone who has one on, but a portion of the team needs to be wearing one for me to do that (it will affect the score - especially in Forced maps, not so much in Owned).

Edited April 24, 2015 by G37

[LN-MLB 2,583]

I find over-calling Lester in TDMs to be quite annoying, but it's not as bad as say wearing a BPH in a pistol TDM.  There should be an option to disallow the use of BPHs, Lester, and Loser Perks, but since that isn't possible, much of this comes to down to using your own judgement.  As stated, there is no way to tell who or when someone uses loser perks, so there is no way of regulating it.  It's just an accepted part of the game.  I would say anything goes when it comes to playing against randoms, but individuals should perhaps at least be respectful and not spam Lester during crew events or try to sneak by using a BPH.

 

I enjoy TDMs quite a bit, so I have more or less come to terms with the fact that most random TDMs that I join will feature owned weapons.  I don't quite understand the fascination with them, but I suppose we all have our own tastes.  I think owned weapons more or less destroy the original concept of a custom map as it takes the strategy away of picking up weapons, using your ammo wisely, and how certain areas are meant for a specific type of weapon in general.  As stated, certain weapons are often heavily overused and it more or less becomes a free roam type atmosphere.

 

Unfortunately, the concept of using owned weapons and attempting to regulate players to using a very specific weapon is just asking for too much.  You're always going to have someone who doesn't have that specific weapon, doesn't have sufficient ammo for that weapon, doesn't have a mic to hear the specified instructions, and the list goes on.  It's a nice idea, but with this game being what it is and people being who they are, it's just sort of fantasy and might even be a huge hassle to try and regulate something like that.

Edited April 25, 2015 by LN-MLB

[JustHatched 12,123]

Before we get this all out of proportion...

The use of Lester, BPH, owned weapons, etc... there is no crew rule against it. It's up to each host to set the rules of an event not crew policy. If someone wants to run a pl of owned weapons that's fine, I don't think anyone will complain, but like the BPH the rules need to be posted ahead of time so all have time to see it. If they do not then follow the rules it's an issue. You can not expect or assume it is immature for it to be announced at the time of playing that all will see or hear the rule.

Some peeps have posted in their event rules that the BPH is not allowed and very few times that has been broken an in all cases it was from someone whom did not RSVP but rather took the invite that hosts do to fill a lobby, and in most of those cases a quick PSN message solved the problem.

If anyone wants to host an event with say muskets only, thats fine...post it! You can't bitch much that other hosts don't do it, they are hosting how they see fit to run their events.

All that applies to Lester, if you do not want Lester used at all post it in the event rules, otherwise deal with it. I rarely see Lester used in crew events so I can't really see the problem unless we are making something out of nothing.

[Pb76 3,952]

This is supposed to be a mature crew, correct?

Then those mature crew members that can't listen to or read simple instructions can leave that job.

LN and G highlighted the issues with this above, the simplest remedy would be for r* to include those weapons in the creator.

(But they won't.)

[SeymorScagneti 1,274]

Avoiding owned weapons on T/DMs because of the few who can't listen and ruin the fun for everyone else is lame.

There are what, 15 or so weapons not included in the creator?

All I'm saying is mix things up and try different things.

Yeah, some weapons like the flare gun have limited ammo....lower the time limit and put a 10 kill limit on a match like that. There are settings available to accommodate limited ammo weapons.

Another idea is having everyone turn off their HUD, and use owned and suppressed weapons.

[wraignbow 719]

I don't mind when others use Lester--  they just become my new target.