Contact Racing Etiquette

[ScottyB 2,086]

I have been wanting to bring this up for a while and I think it will help clarify how we should behave (or try to) in a contact race.

I don't really know what the proper rules are for IRL racing, obviously being more of an arcade game most of the rules can't apply anyway but I would like to try and gather everyone's thoughts on this.

Personally, I don't try to overtake someone unless I can do it cleanly and have plenty of space. Sure, I could try to squeeze through but it will be hit or miss and more often than not it ends up in both of us crashing.

When there are 2 of us approaching a corner, who has right of way? Usually if I am beside and slighty behind someone, even by half a car, I will back off to let them take the proper line instead of holding my position and possibly pushing them off the road. There's a good chance they can't see exactly where you are either.

Depending on the track and how many players, sometimes it's hard to follow but those very basic rules should make for clean racing. I would also like to hear from some of the better racers who have played with contact racing crews to see what rules they follow.

[Gunmanmark 167]

When I was with red rum racing and they had collisions the was one that started the accident slows down and let's him past even if other pass him to. Mainly the racer that is going for an over take is the one in wrong.

We all now that sometimes it just gonna happen were we don't see each other and crash so then we just carried on. as normally both drivers have crashed anyway

[adsyfindlay 412]

Mostly people just have to stick to their lines, if your on the outside you have to stay there. If two drivers are neck and neck coming up to a corner the one on the inside has the priority, so the driver on the outside has to either slow down and let them past or stick to the outside (you sometimes get better speed on leaving the corner anyway).

 

Over takes should be clean however there is bound to be bumps and grinds thats just part of it but like Gunner said if you take someone out accidentally or through there being no room then you have to wait for the driver that you took out until they are infront again. That means even if you loose ore than one position.

 

Lag is always a problem, which is why I try to give space between cars as i don't know what is appearing on others screens! I've taken out Snacks and vice versa a couple of times when I'm no where near him the only way to combat this is through mics or if you spot an odd movement in their car then you treat it as you would any other collision and wait for them. There will be cases where you have no idea that it happened and thats fine but try to spot it

 

Anyway thats my take on it

[truelife98 1,143]

I wouldnt consider my self i good racer but i try to be polite as can be when racing which usually actually ends up hurting people to. If im running towards the front of the pack and i see someone coming up behind me who i know is a better racer i will usually just let them pass me. No sense in holding them back. Going into corners side by side i usually let up a little so as not to collide with other person. This has caused people behind me i didnt realize where there to run into thw back of me and wreck to. If im running towards the front n wreck you i will let you pass. Now if we r battling towards back of the pack and accidental contact is made i dont feel its as important to pull over or slow up but i still will. I think as a crew when we run contact races unless its a fun one where collisons happen everyone is super polite which causes its own problems.

On a side note for anyone who reads this if you would ever happen to crash into me or what not feel free to keep on trucking accidents happen and i wasnt expecting to win anyway. Alot of times guys will apologize and slow and i tell them its all good continue on.

[Beez 5,091]

If you are in front, hold your line. It's the person behind you's problem to make a clean pass. They can try to pass you on the outside but they should be aware that you are probably going to go wide as you accelerate on the exit of the turn. The other common pass is going up the inside and late braking the person in front. In this case it's the leaders job to not leave the inside open but it's also the passers job to not t-bone the passee as he comes up the inside.  It's a dance but if everyone races as if it were real life and there are consequences it can be very fun, intense and rewarding. 

 

IRL I have some experience with track days on a sportbike and practice days at a motocross track, both non-competitive, and I was definitely not the fast guy at either. The rule at both is hold your line and the faster person will figure out a safe way to pass you. An example on professional racing is in Supercross, Andrew Short was famous this year for getting the holeshot and an early lead but he is not one of the fastest guys with the best equipment. Still he is in 1st place and it is up to the riders behind him to make a safe pass (not for him to pull over).

 

Now if you're being lapped that is a different story. During some of the endurance races (Zmurko's & Dodges 24 hour races for example) I will pull over or off the racing line and let them by so as not to influence the outcome. This is sometimes the case in real life racing. If it's safe to pull off the racing line and let them by then do that but otherwise hold your line.

 

Personally, I am bored of non-contact racing and my playlist is all contact except for Disasterpice-type races.

[DavidCore89 7,404]

The racer on the racing line always has priority and they have no reason to move from that racing line at any time, even if there is a racer attempting a dive-bomb move. If a racer causes an incident and they are off the racing line then they are at fault. Any overtaking move has to be completed at some point (this means with enough time for you to retake the racing line, otherwise you'll be at risk of collision and a penalty).

 

Approaching a corner the racer on the outside has the racing line (faster route through the corner), the racing line will move to the inside as they reach the apex. It puzzles me to see some racers attempt a high speed move down the inside when there is no way to complete the move because there is another car on the racing line ahead of them, it usually ends badly for both. It's possible to pull off a move like that, but typically on very slow corners and only if the opportunity presented itself by the racer ahead going wide.

 

It's much different in arcade games without rules or consequences, it's hard to know what to expect, GTA has a lot of players that will try these moves without a seconds thought and almost certainly take out the player ahead of them. Avoiding racers that try these moves is for the best if you're leading the race and plan on staying there until the end.

 

I think when we race with the crew it's mostly clean, but there is a point where there are simply too many players for contact, we're not a racing crew so we have players of all skill and all speeds, it's not possible to get so many players through corners without at least one person crashing and starting the chain reaction. I like contact races, but that doesn't mean I like to come into contact with other players... GTA is so laggy, what happens on one players screen often looks totally different on the next players screen, so I can see why non-contact is preferred by most.

 

I stick to what I know, no matter what race I'm in - If my move isn't completed or my opponent isn't giving me clear sign of backing off then I will slightly reduce my speed by lifting off the accelerator and retake the racing line behind them without causing any harm and look for my next opportunity. I don't need to back off if I have the racing line and I'm defending a move from a racer behind, but I will consider it if the racer is a liability to me.

 

In racing games where the rules are realistic then I do expect people to stick to the rules and I think most do.

Edited June 3, 2015 by DavidCore89

[Pb76 3,952]

I'm not much of a racer myself, as you may know. All I will say is......

[SeymorScagneti 1,274]

I rarely win any type of race but there are 2 things that impact this topic:

1. Lag = You could pass someone cleanly on your screen, but on another screen it looked like you spun someone out. I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done other than the victim saying something and the offender pulling over and waiting.

2. Not everyone races clean = I've seen racers of all types spin someone out, rear end someone, and just keep on going. Maybe that's part lag, maybe it's part asshole. For the most part, I think DB races clean but there are a few who don't.

[Jaggy 2,811]

I don't know how to drive in a straight line in a race.  Free roam, no problem.  

 

If I crash or bump into someone, I pull over to the side and let that person pass me.  Desuno told me to do that months ago when I was racing with him a lot.

 

Not sure what a racing line is, because again, I don't know how to drive in a straight line.  It's best just to avoid any pink cars on the race track because I don't know what I'm doing.

[adsyfindlay 412]

Not sure what a racing line is, because again, I don't know how to drive in a straight line.  

 

Found this and thought it might help you basically just go wide before the corner and clip the inside of the corner (known as the apex) to get a faster speed out of the corner

 

 

 

 

If you really want to know about it you might want to watch these

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLx_tHjuVuROCLZ0sfTQCj0koZ1Fv6cNpM

 

1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 are the ones you want to watch

Edited June 3, 2015 by adsyfindlay

[Dodge 7,265]

I'm on the same plain as most here. The driver making the pass is responsible for making it clean. The driver being passed is responsible for holding his line if the the passer has position. 

 

Now my personal code is a little more racy. I have no issue with rubbing. Rubbin is racin. If I am at fault for taking someone out of the race, I will slow down  and wait to give them the position back. As long as I see it. I will yield a passing lane if someone is chasing me down. If you are faster, I will give you a passing line. I do this because my personal code on blocking goes like this: 1 block is ok. The 2nd block puts you in the wall. Now by blocking, I mean an obviously deliberate attempt to halt my forward progress by moving into my lane. 

 

Obviously server lag, Glitching, and inaccurate vehicle positioning is an issue with this game. So not all incidents are seen by both players involved. 

 

So I guess, in short, I feel it is good to race hard. But some consideration to the drivers around you is necessary to keep the racing environment fair and fun. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by Dodge

[desuno1 351]

Here's pretty much what we did in NoDo:

Etiquette and Techniques

#1- First and foremost, if you use pitting maneuvers or believe them a legitimate strategy then to be blunt, a racing focused crew is not for you. It is an underhanded move that would get you dq'ed from a real race and most likely suspended. Report these players to a commissioner (They can be found in the crew hierarchy.)

#2- There is a button besides the throttle. Learn your brakes and love them. Watch Broughy's racing school videos for braking, accelerating, and finding the racing line: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLx_tHjuVuROCLZ0sfTQCj0koZ1Fv6cNpM The fastest guy in a legitimate race is the guy who stays cleanest and varies from the racing line the least.

#3- There will be contact in GTA racing. With multiple cars that take up almost half the road at high speeds with sharp corners it's going to happen. But notice the guy out front usually doesn't get involved in it or knows how to avoid it. The biggest area you can learn to avoid contact in is corners. Realize also that cars in GTA are all very light so contact will mean spinning out or losing traction for both parties a lot of the time.

#4- Other cars are NOT objects to bounce off of. If someone goes wide in a corner you should just find the best line, not use them as a way to get through the corner. That is very cheap and the sign of a bad racer. If someone is going slower than you into a corner or is taking a corner like a turtle you still have to get around them, do not crash into them or try to force them out of the way. That is against racing rules. Plus you could probably pass them by finding a different line, even the outside line can work at times like that. There are unavoidable times in racing where you will nail the guy in front of you just try to see ahead and maybe back off or move if you know they are headed for disaster. Times like these include a racer crashing in front of you or them slamming on the brakes if maybe they are unsure of how to approach the next bit of track. Be aware of your surroundings and watch for brake lights.

#5- Let's say you have a race that starts out like Broughy's video How Most Races on GTA Begin. If you don't get the hole shot and get out front like Broughy did, stay away from the middle of the pack. Let off the gas a bit before the corner and let any mayhem ensue while you slip through. If you find yourself taking a corner with someone the best thing you can do is keep your line. Don't try to overtake or change course in the middle of the turn. You'll either be the jerk who pushes the other guy off the road or you will end up taking both of you out.

#6- Pride- we are all guilty of taking a bad line that caused us or others to crash at one time or another because we refused to believe that the other guy took the better line and he is going to beat you through the corner. Realize that you will get beat in racing, be it a corner or the whole race. Don't be the guy that rages and starts driving out of control or pushing where he shouldn't. If you realize you are getting beat in a turn or someone has a better line than you, just let off the gas for a second and try to make your line better. If you don't you will probably go off the road or crash the other driver out.

#7- This leads to purposeful braking. Braking will give you the edge over people who take sloppy lines. If some one gets out in front of you and you can see he is trying to take the corner starting from the inside, get ready to pass. Always go outside-inside. It is impossible to go inside-inside, momentum will kick you outside. When you see that racer go inside to start the corner, brake or let off the gas for just an instant so that when he goes outside on the exit of the corner you can go outside-inside on them and rocket out of there with much more exit speed. Outside-inside is your best friend.

#8- Learn to block and close the door on other racers. If you see a racer gaining behind you, close the door by taking the best line or the line that eliminates an inside line and stick with it. Stay in front of them. If they try to get next to you, stick your line and eventually they will have brake or slow down. Do NOT force them off the road though. This goes back to the pride issue. If someone gets next to you or is about to pass do not bump them or "accidentally" push them outside. This is a dirty move. Note that blocking someone or forcing some one to go slower by closing the door will slow you both down and allow others to catch up or possibly let the racer in front of you take a nice lead. Read the situation and act accordingly.

#9- If you play a created race, judge the track not the racers. And maybe like it out of respect for a crew member.

#10- Don't hit street lamps or road signs while cutting corners. Hitting those obstacles when you are near the front is devastating to people in the middle, because when a single driver runs over the fallen prop, be it a stop sign or a tire stack, the likelihood of him spinning out is extremely high.

#11- Don't get back on the track without checking for others. Remember that we aren't alone in the race and that by crawling back on to the circuit, we might be blocking someone behind us who had every right to be passing us at that time.

[PapOiteE 465]

I always break earlier so i dont hit my opponent and i only try to overtake when the opponent makes a wide turn, or in a good overtaking zone i try to stick behind to gain extra speed and then i perform the meneuver.

[JALJ 541]

I'm not a good racer but i like to consider myself a clean driver. The only times I do get aggressive is when I try to overtake but even then I'm not going to try it without knowing I have a chance of doing it clean. I'm also so used to non contact that sometimes its hard to switch over to the "contact" mentality.

You guys have some nice tips and this is going to be helpful for people like me who just don't know these things.

I may sometimes unconsciously have bad etiquette and I'd like to believe that if I did do something that is "bad" and a player has a problem with it, they should personally reach out to me. Then once I know what it is im doing wrong I'll try and correct it. Or like how desuno said, talk to a a commisioner. Being passive aggressive isn't going to help the behavior. We are all supposed to be mature gamers and there is no reason why we couldn't communicate our differences to each other.

Ultimately its good to have conversations about these sort of things. This is just a game its meant to be fun.

[G37 3,445]

All good comments. I also like to think while we have racers of varying speed and skill sets, we're as honest as possible. That means mistakes are going to happen and that's just part of it. Comes with the territory. I don't think we have anyone here who is intentionally going to bend you over.

 

At the same time, I think non-contact has seriously spoiled us on the whole. I know it seems crazy, but imagine this .. back when I first joined we would do shit like Alleys and Assholes with CONTACT. Sometimes it was a mess but for the most part was pretty good. We got to learn the tracks and we got to learn how people behaved, even if they were bad lines, it helped us to gain information and find others more predictable (reading movements isn't a bad thing). So while our Vetting PLs introduce some Contact for just that .. Vetting purposes, I don't think it'd be a bad idea .. if people were actually interested, to start doing more Contact in our various PLs.

 

I also know a lot of us here are VERY considerate. That's not a bad thing either, but at the same time, I know some of you are quite good and are just bashful about it. I see a lot of people who back off early because they're afraid their mistakes will punish everyone else. While there may be some truth in that, don't do that ALL the time. You're only selling yourself short and I've seen brilliance in some racers here who think they're anything but that. Learn to be confident. I sometimes see you guys up front early on through some tricky shit so keep with the momentum.

Edited June 3, 2015 by G37

[no_snacks 3,345]

The trouble with real life racing rules, is they're written for competitive racers who have a high level of experience and awareness of what's going on around them.

Those rules are quite often very "black or white" in the way they are written.  A lot of incidents that happen on track (real life or online) aren't black or white, but shades of grey. 

 

The racing line rule is one example.  

It's true, that if you have the racing line & there's a car partway alongside your inside, they should yield to you when you get to the turn-in point for the corner.  

However, there's always the possibility that they may try to brake later than you & take the corner first.  

If you brake late as well, then there will be a problem.  They can no longer yield because they have already braked as late as possible.  

In that situation, you have to be aware of cars on your inside & you'll need to take a wider line through the corner, leaving a cars width at the apex.  They cannot magically disappear.  They have to go somewhere.

If you leave room at the apex & they still slide into the side of you, it's 100% their fault.  If you don't leave room, they'll say you "closed the door" on them.  In that case, it'll most probably be judged a racing incident. 50/50.

 

Because we're not a dedicated racing crew, we often have different levels of drivers on track at the same time.  

Some are fast & experienced at contact racing.  Others are slower & less aware of what's going on around them.

A lot of us will not be able to make split second decisions & have time to react in most cases, but there are a few basic tips we can all use.

• If in doubt, hold your line.  If another car is just behind or partly alongside, don't suddenly change course.  No weaving from side to side.
• Use your mini-map when others are close by.  It's very accurate & a lot easier to use than your mirrors in most cases.  Use your mirrors too.
• If you crash all by yourself or into another car, DO NOT just re-enter the track without checking for oncoming cars.  Stop & wait if you have to.
• Try to follow the natural racing line as much as possible.  You will cause doubt in other driver's minds if you're not where you're supposed to be.
• If you're behind another car.  Be patient.  Don't try to force an overtake.  9 times out of 10 it will end in tears for both of you.
• Try to avoid poles & signs whenever possible.  Sometimes it's hard to avoid them, & that's fine, but if you continuously knock down the same pole lap after lap, then you have no respect for your fellow crew members.  You may as well just P.I.T. them instead. 
• Use your mic, whether attacking or defending.  I've quite often heard good communication from people, saying things like "Take the inside, I'll stay wide."  or "I'm passing on your left.  Stay right."  
• Use your brakes or simply ease off the gas.  So many people brake too hard, too late.  In most cases, it's not the quickest way to take a corner & will often take you off the racing line, causing confusion & doubt to those around you.  Smooth & steady is quicker & a lot easier to predict.
• If you take someone out, apologies & slow down to let them past again.  Of course if they've careered off the cliff & blown up, you can't do much about it but apologise even more.
• Lag can play a big part in some collisions, so if possible, leave a little bit more room than you think you need to. 

 

Sorry to make you read.   Here's a video to make up for it.  

This is the lag contact Adsy was talking about in an earlier post.  On his screen, my car was pushing into the back corner of his & caused him to crash into the barrier.  On my screen........well take a look.

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by no_snacks

[ScottyB 2,086]

All great comments and they are all very similar which is good. Haha snacks that's the best video! I've never seen it that bad before..

I forgot to mention about re entering after a crash. Expand your mini map and make sure it's clear. Even if they're far away, they are most likely moving fast so use your best judgment. I've been taken out a few times by people pulling in front of me after a crash.

The next thing to talk about with this is track selection. The problem with most contact races I have played is that there are many choke points near the starting grid and everyone piles up there. These shouldn't be played with contact unless all the racers are equally matched otherwise it always ends up in a massive pile up.

[truelife98 1,143]

Reading all this kinda helps me out. When running contact alot of timed i will be in front of someone going into a corner and i do best i can to keep my line but i see them trying to pass me on inside so im left with either continuing on which will probably lead to a crash or slowing up to let them pass. From what i read sounds like the guy trying to pass from behind by cutting the corner is responsible for us not making contact

[ScottyB 2,086]

Reading all this kinda helps me out. When running contact alot of timed i will be in front of someone going into a corner and i do best i can to keep my line but i see them trying to pass me on inside so im left with either continuing on which will probably lead to a crash or slowing up to let them pass. From what i read sounds like the guy trying to pass from behind by cutting the corner is responsible for us not making contact

Yeah they are definitely in the wrong, unless you are neck and neck before the turn, in which case you should leave enough room between you and the apex so that they can fit in and you both go around the corner together, but a bit slower.

I liked jags comment about how she doesn't know what we're talking about. We aren't a racing crew and everyone has different skill levels which means they won't always be on the racing line and will brake at different points. We need to be aware and use our best judgement to avoid contact with them as much as possible. At the end of the day it is an arcade racer and we are here to have fun. Hopefully this has helped people understand the best things to do while in a contact race and also helped improve people's racing lines by understand where you should be positioned for each corner.

[no_snacks 3,345]

Reading all this kinda helps me out. When running contact alot of timed i will be in front of someone going into a corner and i do best i can to keep my line but i see them trying to pass me on inside so im left with either continuing on which will probably lead to a crash or slowing up to let them pass. From what i read sounds like the guy trying to pass from behind by cutting the corner is responsible for us not making contact

Yes and yes/no. 

Like I was saying earlier, there are grey areas in racing situations.  Sometimes the rules don't quite cover all types of incidents.

It's too easy for someone to think "Hey, I'm on the racing line, therefore I can do what I want."

 

IMO, if the car behind tries to duck down the inside just as you're about to turn in for the corner, then they are 100% at fault if contact is made.  No question.

If you are running side by side (even if they're only halfway alongside you) on the approach to a corner, it's both drivers responsibility to avoid contact.

 

The driver on the inside might be hoping to out-brake you.  It's a very common passing manoeuvre. 

If that's the case, they aren't really doing anything wrong.  Quite often the driver on the outside will (should) leave room for the one on the inside.

 

The same principal applies when exiting the corner too.  

It wouldn't be fair if you left me room at the apex, then I took a wide line on exit.  You'd have nowhere to go & would need to back off.

It's more of a judgement or respect thing, rather than a black & white rule IMO.

[Torrid 653]

This came into play with the dirt track in the PS3 playlist. That track is the perfect example/baseline since there aren't any surprises to the track, i.e., poles, trees, etc. If I'm on the inside line coming into the corner and can see someone is passing on the outside and does not make it fully around me I'll abandon the proper racing line and stay low on the track to avoid contact. The worst that happens is that dirt is a loose surface and if the car gets away from you, that's when contact happens. If I cause an accident as mentioned multiple times above, I'll hold off until the person I've crashed out has passed me.

With the other added elements of more elaborate tracks obviously there are more variables that do add the possibility of the grey area of what could happen. It does sound that everyone does stick to the same basic race etiquette and that's why most incidents to seem to be avoided and everyone seems to be understanding that accidents do happen.

[grjkie 727]

In contact racing with the crew most of the time I'll brake harder to avoid issues with other players. I don't think I've played that many contact races with you guys but the ones I've played I tend to avoid others. Even if I'm going faster onto a corner and I can tell that I'll pass them and don't spin out I still brake harder to avoid crashes and hope they'll make a mistake wich rarely happens with the fastest racers here. I can't give more feedback because we rarely play with contact on and my experience with contact races before joining here was with random players and with them even the fastest ones are douches

[Chewy 612]

Not ashamed to say I had no idea about the rules of right of way until this thread. I just tried to never hit anyone. Thanks for posting this Scotty.

[zmurko 7,622]

If you put aside any racing "rules" and when you have racers of various skil, I mainly follow these simple guidelines and if everyone did, there would be very little accidents and everyone would enjoy themselves:

1. Use your brakes!

2. Be careful when coming back on the track (use the minimap and look around)

3. Apologize and give your position back when it's your fault for a collision

4. Be patient, don't force an overtake