Should we stay or should we go?

[RichnLin 612]

6 hours ago, DavidCore89 said:

If immigration has nothing to do with it, why is it the main agenda of the vote?

Because, as Squirrel said in the first post here, the vast majority of eligible voters are reality-tv watching sheep. Stupid reality-tv watching sheep! Just look at what Trump is doing in the US. Essentially that is what the Leave campaign is doing using immigration. Fear. It doesn't matter that the facts and figures they are using are made up. How many of those reality-tv watching sheep are going to check?

Nice post @silenttigercd. I agree with much of what you have to say, particularly about the powers of the commission. Nevertheless, my inclination, if I still had a vote in UK politics, would be to stay and try to water down the power of the unelected parts of the EU from within. I think we should be seeing Cameron's pathetic efforts (although I don't lay the blame solely on his shoulders) as a start, not an end to negotiations.

[JustHatched 12,123]

I don't have anything to say about the EU, if any country wants to leave for whatever reason it should be up to the people as is being done, I would say the same for any state who would want to leave the USA.

 

Immigration is a major issue in the USA as well, the way I see it is (I assume) most countries have a legal way of becoming a citizen of that country, if someone did not do it the legal way then if they get sent where they came from I don't see how anyone can complain. Just the way the law works (should work)

 

I'm sure any country leaving the EU would effect the global economy in some degree (good or bad).

 

I am glad this topic is proving we can have some discussions without it getting ugly, debate the post and not the poster. Good job all

[djw180 6,977]

13 hours ago, silenttigercd said:

Thanks @Arruda

There are compelling arguments from both sides, it's a shame none of them have filtered down to the UK campaigns! 

Totally agree on that Tiger. Neither side seems to be putting together a very positive argument.

I think we are only having the referendum because the Conservative party and the government itself is split on the issue. Governments probably only have referendums when they can't decide what to do themselves. So most of the arguments, or at least those that get media attention are from rival tories, Cameron vs Boris, Osbourne vs Gove etc. So it just seems to come across as Conservative in-fighting rather than a debate on the issues.

I will be voting to remain, despite the arguments about lack of democracy, wasting money and TTIP.  I think its better to be in and try to reform it than leave. On a more personal level I work in scientific research and a lot of funding for this comes from the EU. It will effect universities badly if we leave. Also my wife used to work in community development and lot of funding for that came from EU as well.

Edited June 7, 2016 by djw180

[Squirrel 5,180]

I'm still undecided. I feel like I'm leaning more towards staying in though mainly because of the close European ties I have. 

I did see an interesting image earlier though. 

Certainly helps to make a decision when you see the opinions of some of the countries greatest minds.

 

[djw180 6,977]

24 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I'm still undecided. I feel like I'm leaning more towards staying in though mainly because of the close European ties I have. 

I did see an interesting image earlier though. 

Certainly helps to make a decision when you see the opinions of some of the countries greatest minds.

 

Yes that sort of thing helped make my decision as well. Of course in the interests of balance you can add few nob-heads to the remain side as well as some principled politicians from the left and right to the leave side, but the very idea of agreeing with Boris, Gove and, God forbid!, Katie Hopkins and Murdoch is unthinkable for me.

Edited June 14, 2016 by djw180

[Squirrel 5,180]

2 minutes ago, djw180 said:

Yes that sort of thing helped make my decision as well. Of course in the interests of balance you can add few nob-heads to the remain side as well as some principled politicians from the left and right to the leave side, but the very idea of agreeing with Boris, Gove and, God forbid, Katie Hopkins!  and Murdoch is unthinkable for me.

Yeah it's definitely an image promoted by the remain campaign. Should really try find a similar one for the leave campaign for balance but there's some well known names on the leave side that I'd never want to associate my political feelings with.

[silenttigercd 863]

This is just ridiculous. There are idiots and fine minds on both sides. 

How do you select the pool of people? Evidently this lot have been selected based on their perceived popularity. It's complete propaganda putting all the "liked" people on the remain side and all the "bad" people on leave.  The creator is blatantly biased.  

If this is the logic for basing decisions, then why stop at these famous people? Extend it to all members of the public and let them decide in the vote.   

I can't begin to understand why the opinions of actors, musicians, and fiction writers are valued higher than those of experts in the field. At least Farage and Griffin have both worked as MEPs and have discovered, and voiced, the issues with the EU. 

On a similar note, the most ridiculous thing I've heard recently was a lady who told me she's voting remain "because she doesn't like that Farage man." Vote leave then, for fuck sake, he'll lose his job! 

[Squirrel 5,180]

6 minutes ago, silenttigercd said:

This is just ridiculous. There are idiots and fine minds on both sides. 

How do you select the pool of people? Evidently this lot have been selected based on their perceived popularity. It's complete propaganda putting all the "liked" people on the remain side and all the "bad" people on leave.  The creator is blatantly biased.  

If this is the logic for basing decisions, then why stop at these famous people? Extend it to all members of the public and let them decide in the vote.   

I can't begin to understand why the opinions of actors, musicians, and fiction writers are valued higher than those of experts in the field. At least Farage and Griffin have both worked as MEPs and have discovered, and voiced, the issues with the EU. 

On a similar note, the most ridiculous thing I've heard recently was a lady who told me she's voting remain "because she doesn't like that Farage man." Vote leave then, for fuck sake, he'll lose his job! 

It's more the opinions of Branson, Hawking and Obama that sway it for me but on the other hand you have Dyson, Bannatyne and Ecclestone. These are all very intelligent men with a lot of power in different fields. Even though I hate what Ecclestone is doing to F1 you can't argue with his business sense. 

I don't have faith in politicians.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Squirrel

[DavidCore89 7,404]

Lol typical.

I'm seeing a lot of things to put pressure on people to vote either way. Everyday the news has a new story to threaten out-voters with.

Don't let a grid-chart-thing tell you what camp you're in and don't feel pressured into voting either way out of fear of being branded a knob-head.

I'm voting out, but Kate Hopkins is still a bitch, Boris is still a fool and Ecclestone is still ugly 

The media just like to say "Hey, voting out makes you the same as Trump"... Total BS

I don't care what celebrities and great minds are voting... They're just names for people to cling to. I'm one of the regular people, I don't drive flash cars, don't have a high-flying job and I don't take holidays in the south of France.

I suppose it's a good time to get the undecided on-board.

Won't be mad either way, although it'll be interesting when the results are ready.

[Squirrel 5,180]

The campaigning has taken an ugly turn now. An MP for remain was stabbed and shot earlier near Leeds by someone shouting Britain First. She's in a critical condition after being shot in the face. This is a serious subject but attacking campaigners for either side is anything but civilised. There's no mention of the ethnic origin of the attacker. Some people shouldn't be allowed in society. 

[LimeGreenLegend 4,275]

Was that anything to do with Brexit though? Probably just an insane kunt like all other gunmen.

And the campaign has gotten way too ugly.  As someone voting out I'm apparently a bigoted racist.  Just makes me want to leave more.

Edited June 16, 2016 by LimeGreenLegend
Not allowed to spell kunt with a c.

[DavidCore89 7,404]

Some maniac-psycho's out there, I hope they stay away from me!

 

[Team_Bub_8487 194]

I think we need to wait until all the facts are in before we can even associate this horrible incident with the referendum.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Team_Bub_8487

[Squirrel 5,180]

It's fucking disgusting. We're supposed to be a civilised society. These kind of stories are what you normally here from developing nations with their first taste of democracy.

More details are coming out now, White male in his 50's with what looked like a homemade weapon. 

14 minutes ago, DavidCore89 said:

Some maniac-psycho's out there, I hope they stay away from me!

 

This was only a few miles from me. There's no need for extremism in any form.

[grjkie 727]

I am actually hoping for Britain to stay, I love my Amazon UK

[Squirrel 5,180]

The MP has died from her injuries. Shocking news. 

[Team_Bub_8487 194]

This is a very dark day 

[LimeGreenLegend 4,275]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

The MP has died from her injuries. Shocking news. 

Shocking and unnecessary and it will also further de-rail both campaigns as the murderer apparently shouted "Britain first" as he attacked her.

[Squirrel 5,180]

Handy online questionnaire for those undecided amongst us:

https://eudecision.uk/

I've not received my card yet for voting and it's only a few days away. Has everyone else got theirs?

 

[silenttigercd 863]

No surprises here!

Edited June 20, 2016 by silenttigercd

[Squirrel 5,180]

3 minutes ago, silenttigercd said:

No surprises here!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I got 77% Remain even though I answered don't know to a few of the questions. We don't really know how the economy is going to perform. If we leave the EU then there will be a lot of disruption financially, whether it means we'll be better off in the long term or not is unknown. 

[silenttigercd 863]

7 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I got 77% Remain even though I answered don't know to a few of the questions. We don't really know how the economy is going to perform. If we leave the EU then there will be a lot of disruption financially, whether it means we'll be better off in the long term or not is unknown. 

I agree - also answered unknown for one. Still managed to get 100% though

[djw180 6,977]

I got 100% remain which I am surprised about. I would have expected more like 60 - 70% remain.

[BryannosaurusRex 1,173]

I got 100% remain. I'm undecided, although swaying towards remain. 

[Lann 10,846]

Off topic, but still. In work I invest/place in instruments that are affected (gained) by any unsecurity in the market.  We have along with our bank  waited with alot of big $ to take the opportunity that is likely to occur if the vote is leave.

Interesting times.d